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088 hot saw

spencerpaving

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hey guys new to the forum here, but not new to saws. just a quick question, on a 088 saw with a tuned pipe should i run stock timing or advance it or retard it a couple of degrees? any input would be much appreated.
 

Smittybilt

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Spencerpaving is my buddy........ he has finally stopped lurking and posted WOW. here is a pic of his saw


 

Smittybilt

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sorry for the blurry pic he must have been scared when he took the pic....
 

Gink

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It interesting you ask this as I was just reading a good artical on ignition timing with pipes. The artical I was reading was about Grand prix bikes. This tuner was saying that by retarding the timing 4 degrees on the motorcycle it would pull another 500 rpms on top. I'll dig the article up later and post it so you can read it.
 

spencerpaving

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ill try to retard it a couple of degress, to see what happens, always expermenting on stuff. yea i know smittybuilt it is time for me to stop being a lurker and start posting about some of my stuff, im just not that computer savy!
 

Denis Gionet

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What does retard the timing mean?

It means to adjust the timing so the spark plug fires later than the standard setting, ie 4 degrees. This will change the power pulse created by the ignition system and alter the way the engine runs, how it makes power and how much, and at what rpms the best power is made.

An easy comparison would be your buddy who's a retard (slow) doesn't get your silly jokes right away, gets them after everyone else, ergo he's late in respect to others. So the spark is late, or retarded.

Make sense ? I don't get it either, darned retard......
 

Gink

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Here is the piece of the artical that I mentioned.

"Advance affects the expansion chamber primarily by altering
exhaust gas temps. More advance generally reduces EGT, to a
point. Retarding the timing makes the mixture burn later, and
more heat escapes into the exhaust pipe. Higher EGTs raise Vs,
and remembering the equation for Lt, the peaking RPM of the
motor varies directly with Vs.
Simple version: retarding the timing at high RPMs will give you
more overrev. This is no big secret, and my motor will pull
hard for an extra 500 rpm or more simply by retarding the timing
4 degrees. The trick is to keep a good amount of advance
through the upper-mid rpms, and retard timing after peak power
to extend the rpm range of the pipe. Being able to rev another
500 rpms may save a racer several shifts per lap, so retard is
an easy way to tune the exhaust system on the fly."
 

Smittybilt

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Here is the piece of the artical that I mentioned.

"Advance affects the expansion chamber primarily by altering
exhaust gas temps. More advance generally reduces EGT, to a
point. Retarding the timing makes the mixture burn later, and
more heat escapes into the exhaust pipe. Higher EGTs raise Vs,
and remembering the equation for Lt, the peaking RPM of the
motor varies directly with Vs.
Simple version: retarding the timing at high RPMs will give you
more overrev. This is no big secret, and my motor will pull
hard for an extra 500 rpm or more simply by retarding the timing
4 degrees. The trick is to keep a good amount of advance
through the upper-mid rpms, and retard timing after peak power
to extend the rpm range of the pipe. Being able to rev another
500 rpms may save a racer several shifts per lap, so retard is
an easy way to tune the exhaust system on the fly."



Do you have the english version of this? j/k good read..
 

spencerpaving

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thanks for the info guys, very much appreated. might have to try to adapt a msd dipswitch system to a saw then find a dyno to get it supertuned. then the only excuse i will have on losing a race is the operator! lol! or chain, or out of gas, or its raining, or air filter plugged or plug wire off. ha ha!
 

BloodOnTheIce

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Spencerpaving is my buddy........ he has finally stopped lurking and posted WOW. here is a pic of his saw



Looks good guys can't wait to meet you all at the show.

You don't need that air filter they just get in the way when you're trying to prime them.
Or if you saw won't shut off you'll have to flood them, so just get rid of it.
 

spencerpaving

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yea i know i have been told by a few people to get rid of the filter because it gets irn the way of cold start racing. i just have it on there for practice,lord knows i need a lot of it! i was doing some testing a couple of days ago with and without the filter and i found very little diff. in tuning.... i am a newbe at saws but i have raced snowmobiles for a long time, so any info and help would be awesome thanks guys!
 

spencerpaving

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hers some info on the saw, i dont mind posting it because i built it and am new to this have nothing to lose, this is just for fun. just need some help on it. saw is a 088,ported two pice head that i made about 195 lbs comp running gas. just did some testing tonight it is a 20 inch bar with a 11 tooth gear, pulling about 10400-10600 in the cut. i think it running good but compared to somme saws i have seen there seems there is more to be had. dont know am i close?:confused:
 

BloodOnTheIce

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hers some info on the saw, i dont mind posting it because i built it and am new to this have nothing to lose, this is just for fun. just need some help on it. saw is a 088,ported two pice head that i made about 195 lbs comp running gas. just did some testing tonight it is a 20 inch bar with a 11 tooth gear, pulling about 10400-10600 in the cut. i think it running good but compared to some saws i have seen there seems there is more to be had. dont know am i close?:confused:

Mine runs a cut down 25" bar with a 12 tooth sprocket and I'm running I think a 68 dl chain.

To get the sprocket to match up with the bar a 20" isn't wide enough on mine.

Down there at the show it will everything from gas woods ports on pipe, to full stroker alky saws, and bikesaws.

 

spencerpaving

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Mine runs a cut down 25" bar with a 12 tooth sprocket and I'm running I think a 68 dl chain.

To get the sprocket to match up with the bar a 20" isn't wide enough on mine.

Down there at the show it will everything from gas woods ports on pipe, to full stroker alky saws, and bikesaws.


i might try a 12 tooth before the show but i dont know if it will pull it , need to get it into a pros hands to see if it is anywher close. might just call john force for some fuel!
 

Cut4fun

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I've owned a couple of those type saws. :wheee:

1st was was a Dave Neiger built 084 gas saw to learn on. I think this was Brent Combs first hotsaw to learn on too.





2nd was a alky/nitro Marcel Vincent built 166.





3rd is when I got in over my head. Cliff Helsel built 3120 alky/nitro screaming monster. It was so damn fast my we brain couldnt keep up with it.


 

BloodOnTheIce

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I've owned a couple of those type saws. :wheee:

1st was was a Dave Neiger built 084 gas saw to learn on. I think this was Brent Combs first hotsaw to learn on too.





2nd was a alky/nitro Marcel Vincent built 166.





3rd is when I got in over my head. Cliff Helsel built 3120 alky/nitro screaming monster. It was so damn fast my we brain couldnt keep up with it.



They make some screaming fast saws, but the way the pipe come out
makes it looks like complete pain to transport. Unless you pull the pipe off after every show, or if you have the
whole bed of the truck to store transport it in.
 

Cut4fun

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All about perfect balance. I could pick that 3120 up with middle finger only on that yellow piece of tape and it would be setting perfectly level and balanced out.

Had no problem transporting that hotsaw and there would usually be 2 hotsaws with like pipes or just mine in my envoy.
 
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